[0:00] 1 Samuel chapter 28 verses 3 through 25 is our text this evening. Before we get into it, and I know I'm a little bit late, I do apologize. I just, I got asked a question.
[0:12] I had to testify to just one of the events in our past of the Lord's goodness and mercy displayed upon us. And I love talking about the things of the Lord. So I give you an opportunity.
[0:23] Anybody have a word they just need to share or a question they need to ask? Here's your time. I give you a few minutes. Anything you need to share or a question you need to ask?
[0:36] Okay, there are none. And we'll get right into it. This morning I shared with you that our text this evening will cover a portion of scripture.
[0:49] And my brother Barnett and I were working on how to word this the right way. In which I don't know that I had to change my interpretation.
[0:59] I would change maybe, but I guess I came to a greater understanding. And you'll see when we get to it why. Because this text deals with the question that I've been asked in this group in a Q&A time.
[1:12] And I know always in my answering of that question, I always give room for one of two ways of interpreting the text. And I never would really lean one way or the other.
[1:23] But after wrestling with this passage for about two weeks, there's no more leaning anymore, I believe I come to. Now, it's not a big rock issue. It's not a major rock issue.
[1:34] But I think it is still the true interpretation of the passage we'll get to. So, okay, let's just get right into the word of God together.
[1:46] 1 Samuel chapter 28. We're going to start in the third chapter. Because if you remember, the 27th chapter, the first two verses of the 28th chapter, and then the 29th chapter, deal in particular with David's second journey into the land of Gath, the land of the Philistines.
[2:05] Okay, if you remember, David had, just kind of put it in context. He has spared Saul's life a second time. He said, now there's nothing else for me to do.
[2:15] He said to himself, it says in the 27th chapter, which always gets us in trouble when we begin to self-reason. There's nothing else for me to do but leave the land. And then he went to the land of the Philistines into the city of Gath.
[2:28] He was given Ziklag to live in. He was there. And the whole time, he's kind of living a double standard life. He's living among the Philistines the whole time, raiding the Philistine land and the people who are allies with the Philistines.
[2:41] But he is implying that he's doing it to the Jewish people. And then there comes this pivotal day when the Philistines go to war with the nation of Israel. And David's forced to make a decision.
[2:52] And that's what takes place in the first two verses of the 28th chapter. David says, oh, I'll go with you. Never really says whose side he is on, but it's really forced with a difficult moment.
[3:03] And then the 29th chapter shows how God delivers David from that situation because the rulers of the Philistines said, we don't want him here. Send him back, O king. So he sends him back.
[3:14] David's like, well, what have I done? And he gets away with it. But the consequences are still there because we get to the 30th chapter and we find it when he goes back. His family's involvement taken because there are always consequences of sin.
[3:27] In the midst of that, we have the 28th chapter, verses 3 through 25, which tell us, as Paul Harvey used to say, the rest of the story.
[3:38] Because this is what's going on in the land of the Philistines when David is hanging out where he shouldn't be. Now let's see what's going on in the land of Israel. And there's one who really doesn't deserve to be in the place that he inhabits, which is Saul.
[3:51] So we'll see here. And we have recorded for us the second time in the third verse, the death of our particular individual. Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him and buried him in Ramah, his own city.
[4:06] And Saul had removed from the land those who were mediums and spiritists. So the Philistines gathered together and came and camped in Shunam. And Saul gathered all Israel together, and they camped in Geboa.
[4:18] When Saul saw the camp of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart trembled greatly. When Saul inquired of the Lord, the Lord did not answer him, either by dreams or by Urim or by the prophets.
[4:30] Then Saul said to his servants, Seek for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her. And her servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman who is a medium at Endor.
[4:42] Then Saul disguised himself by putting on other clothes and went, he and two men with him. And they came to the woman by night, and he said, Conjure up for me, please, and bring up for me whom I shall name to you.
[4:54] But the woman said to him, Behold, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off those who are mediums and spiritists from the land. Why are you then laying a snare for my life to bring about my death?
[5:06] Saul vowed to her by the Lord, saying, As the Lord lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing. Then the woman said, Whom shall I bring up for you? And he said, Bring up Samuel for me.
[5:19] When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul. The king said to her, Do not be afraid, but what do you see?
[5:32] And the woman said to Saul, I see a divine being coming up out of the earth. And he said to her, What is his form? And she said, An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe.
[5:44] And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and did homage. Then Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?
[5:54] And Saul answered, I am greatly distressed, for the Philistines are waging war against me. And God has departed from me and no longer answers me, either through prophets or by dreams.
[6:06] Therefore I have called you that you may make known to me what I should do. And Samuel said, Why then do you seek me, since the Lord has departed from you and has become your adversary?
[6:16] The Lord has done accordingly as he spoke through me, for the Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor to David. As you did not obey the Lord and did not execute his fierce wrath on Amalek, so the Lord has done this thing to you this day.
[6:32] Moreover, the Lord will also give over Israel along with you into the hands of the Philistines. Therefore tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. Indeed, the Lord will give over the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.
[6:48] Then Saul immediately fell full length upon the ground and was very afraid because of the words of Samuel. Also there was no strength in him, for he had eaten no food all day and all night.
[7:01] The woman came to Saul and saw that he was terrified and said to him, Behold, your maidservant has obeyed you and I have taken my life in my hand and have listened to your words which you spoke to me.
[7:14] So now also please listen to the voice of your maidservant and let me set a piece of bread before you that you may eat and have strength when you go on your way.
[7:26] But he refused and said, I will not eat. However, his servants together with the woman urged him and he listened to them. So he arose from the ground and sat on the bed. The woman had a fattened calf in the house and she quickly slaughtered it and she took flour, kneaded it and baked unleavened bread from it.
[7:44] And she brought it before Saul and his servants and they ate. Then they arose and went away that night. 1 Samuel 28 verses 3 through 25. Here we see a full reward for partial obedience or a full reward for disobedience if we want to entitle it either way.
[8:05] The full reward of partial obedience. It is here set in the context of what is going on with David.
[8:15] As is often in 1 Samuel, we have the comparison of the two men. We have the king of the people and the king of the Lord.
[8:27] Saul, from his very appointment as king, was head and shoulders above everyone else. He had the right pedigree, he had the right looks, he had the right appearance, he had everything going for him except for his heart.
[8:39] If you remember, Saul did not even know that there was a man of God living just five miles from him when he lost his father's donkeys. His servants said, there's a man of God here.
[8:50] And they went in and sought out Samuel. But the people saw him and said, surely this is our king who will go before us. We know that Saul fails not by complete disobedience, but by partial obedience.
[9:05] The kingdom is ripped from him because he does not fully obey the Lord, not once, but a multitude of times. So then God chooses his king.
[9:16] David is a man after God's own heart. We've seen the comparison beginning with David and Goliath. You see Saul's cowering and David's boldness.
[9:27] You see Saul's weakness and David's strength. You see not just the comparison between good David and bad Goliath, but righteous David and unrighteous Saul.
[9:38] We see the comparisons time and time again. We see them when David is doing great. We see them when Saul is doing terrible. But here we see a comparison in the 27th, 28th, and 29th chapters when both men make decisions that they should not make.
[9:56] And we see the comparisons of the outcome. David should have never been in the land of the Philistines. But he's a man after God's own heart, and God graciously delivers him.
[10:08] It is not saying that God overlooked his faults, that God overlooked his sins. But yet we do know that David has done everything that God has called him to do. But he had this moment where he said to himself, rather than consulting the Lord.
[10:23] But when he came to his senses, God was able to restore him. The consequences of that decision will stay with him throughout his life because we see the turmoil in his own home.
[10:35] In contrast, we see Saul. At the same time, when David is somewhere he shouldn't be, Saul ends up going somewhere he should never have went.
[10:47] Both of them, it is ironic, David is saying to himself, Saul is desperately trying to hear a word from God. But we see the full reward of partial obedience.
[10:59] The first thing that we are reminded of is the despair of the time. The author tells us, now we know Samuel did not author this book because by this time Samuel has been dead for some time.
[11:11] The author tells us, for the second time, now Samuel was dead. The last time we had this recorded for us, now Samuel was dead.
[11:22] We see David's response in that he goes further south in the land of Israel. And this is where he gets into kind of that trying time where he almost took another man's life.
[11:34] Yet for Abigail who came and was used of God to spare him of taking his own vengeance. Now Samuel was dead and all Israel had lamented him and buried him in Ramah, his own city.
[11:47] This is a reminder of the desperation of the time. Samuel had been the voice of the word of God to the people of God.
[11:59] He had been used by God to anoint the first two kings of the nation of Israel. He had been used of God to bring the word of God back to the entire nation, not just one locale.
[12:11] He had been used by God to establish the office of prophet. He had been used of God to declare the things to come and to foretell God's declarations.
[12:24] And now he's no longer there. For Samuel was dead. And it tells us that after Samuel is dead, Saul gives another partial act of obedience.
[12:37] And that he removes all the mediums and spiritists from the land. Now we must remind ourselves that this is partial obedience because God has decried and declared that when a medium or a spiritist was found in the land, they were to be destroyed, not removed.
[12:53] Because, see, the problem is, is we don't just push our sin away. We destroy it. We cut it off.
[13:05] Because, as the text shows us, if we just push it aside, the temptation will always come to go back. They were supposed to cut off the mediums and the spirits to rid the land of them.
[13:27] Saul thought it was good enough just to ask them to move. We don't mind. If you do that, just do that over there. So he did not deal with it as God had commanded them to do.
[13:39] That's going to come back to him later. And it's in that period, this period of lack of clarity because Samuel was dead, lack of faithfulness because Saul was partially obeying, that the Philistines gathered together for battle.
[14:00] And they come together, and the word tells us that when Saul saw the Philistines, he trembled. He was afraid.
[14:14] Because of their superiority of warcraft, of their superiority of numbers, and because if you look at where they camped, they camped in a valley where they could use their chariots and their numbers to their advantage.
[14:30] And they put themselves on display. They were parading around. And fear crept into the heart of Saul. And it becomes a desperate moment.
[14:43] And the moment is only heightened in desperation because all Saul wants is a word from God, but he gets none. He cries out, and God is silent.
[15:00] God does not answer by visions or dreams, which was a common thing in the Old Testament and even today in parts of the world. He did not answer by Urim, which is the casting of lots.
[15:13] And he did not answer by prophet. Now, we don't know who was casting the Urim because the only priest that was still alive was with David. Because Saul had killed or ordered the execution of El, the priest of Nob.
[15:30] So what we see is the desperation of the moment because of the physical danger that was imminent in front of him was united with the desperation that Saul had nowhere to turn spiritually.
[15:45] Because live in disobedience long enough and isolate yourself from the people of God enough, there comes a moment where you have no one to speak into your life. And this is why the book of Hebrews tells us to forsake not the assembling together of one another.
[16:03] Because there will always be a day where the enemy camps in the valley, puts himself on display, and we need someone to speak into our life. Always. Saul had no one to speak into his life, and the time gets very desperate.
[16:18] It gets so desperate that it leads us to the second thing, and that is the desire of the man. The despair of the time leads to the desire of the man.
[16:30] All Saul wants is a word from God. He could not pick up a Bible and read it, even though he should have had the Pentateuch committed to his heart because the kings were commanded to read the Pentateuch, that is the first five books of the Bible.
[16:48] The kings were commanded to write down the first five books of the Bible. The kings were commanded to read it out loud to the people of God, yet he did not do any of that.
[16:59] He just wanted a word from God. Which leads him, in his despair, with this desire to ask a question.
[17:10] Then Saul said to his servants, Seek for me a woman who is a medium that I may go to her and inquire of her. And notice how quickly his servants, these are his servants, by the way.
[17:22] It does not take them long because they have a ready answer. They know where one's at. This should be one of those red flags of Scripture. If the people hanging around you know where the mediums and the spiritists are, maybe you don't need to hang around them.
[17:38] They say, oh, there's one at Endor. Now, geographically, if you look and see where the Philistines are camped, and if you look and see where Saul and his men are camped, and you look and see where Endor is camped, Saul had to cross the line of the Philistines to get to Endor.
[17:53] He had to go behind enemy lines. But in his despair, it didn't matter. He disguises himself and goes by night, and he goes to the woman at Endor, and he asks her a question.
[18:13] He actually gives a command. He says, conjure up for me, please, and bring up for me whom I shall name to you. Now, the woman, she's wise. She says, have you not heard what Saul has done?
[18:25] And I find it ironic in that Saul gives his word based upon the Lord God. As surely as Yahweh lives.
[18:40] Well, as surely as he lives, we shouldn't be consulting a medium. But that's his confidence. And his desire is to hear a word from God, and he is willing in that desire to even meet that desire in an unholy, unbiblical manner.
[19:02] So desperate to hear a word, he will do it in a way that God has clearly commanded you should not. Listen, the reality is, it is not that any old word will do.
[19:15] We have to come about it the way God has declared to get it. But he just wanted to hear something. Why? Because it was difficult. Because it was scary.
[19:26] Because he was trembling to the very core of his being. He didn't know what to do. Well, when you have sown what he has sown, these moments will come. When you have lived your life in partial obedience or in full disobedience, then surely these moments will come, and you will be full of uncertainty, and all you want to hear is a word from God.
[19:45] And at that moment, you will be willing to get that word anyway whatsoever. But God doesn't play that way. And we get to, here's my clarity in translation.
[20:04] The third thing, the demonstration of the supernatural. The demonstration of the supernatural. The woman takes Saul at his word and says, who do you want me to conjure up?
[20:16] And he says, Samuel. And she conjures up Samuel. Now the question had been asked to me. According to this passage, was this literally Samuel that came up?
[20:33] My answer in the past has always been, it could have been, but I believe it could have also been, a satanic or demonic representation of Samuel.
[20:44] That it could have been a manifestation of a demon, because Satan is one who lies, steals, kills, and also gives off the appearance of good.
[20:58] That he is an imitator of things. But I want to bring clarity to this, because we are making our way. So he asked for Samuel. And he vowed to her, and it says in verse 11, this is, verse 11 and 12, this is where we get our clarity.
[21:16] Then the woman said, whom shall I bring up for you? And he said, bring up Samuel for me. And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. There's the clarity. And what follows this?
[21:29] The reason she cried out, is because something happened, which she was not expecting to happen. Right? Mediums, spiritists call up spirits, and they deal in the shadows of darkness, and they deal in deception, they deal in trickery, they deal in all these things, that are untrue.
[21:48] But all of a sudden, something that was true, began to happen in front of her, which caused great fear. This is literally Samuel who comes up. The reason I believe it is literally Samuel, is I believe that God gives a one-time supernatural event, for this purpose to manifest his power.
[22:08] Because it scares her to her wit's end, and what is spoken is true. Satan is a liar. He did not declare the truth, and what Samuel says is true.
[22:18] It comes about. The test of the prophet is, whatever he declares, if it comes about, he is true. Right? Those two tests, show us that this is literally Samuel.
[22:30] And now, they used to bother me a little bit, I'll just be honest with you, I'd read them and say, well that just doesn't make any sense at all. And then I had to say to myself, because when I'm studying, and when I'm doing these things, I have to speak to myself a lot of times, why does that bother you Billy Joe?
[22:42] Because when you die, you're not really dead, your body's dead, but you're still alive. And if you live eternally, and God is the God of the living, how difficult would it be for God, who spoke you into existence, just to bring you and manifest you again?
[22:55] You say, well Samuel's dead. Well yeah, his body is dead, but I believe in eternal life. I believe that everyone will live eternally somewhere. Right? I believe that Jesus told the story of a rich man and Lazarus, and the rich man and Lazarus, because if you read the rest of this, Samuel says, you will join me.
[23:11] And you say, well that makes no sense. Well I believe Jesus told the story of the rich man and Lazarus, and the rich man and Lazarus were both dead. Right? The rich man died, and he was buried, and Lazarus was carried away to Abraham's bosom, and the rich man saw Lazarus.
[23:25] They were in the same locale. And he said, come over here. And he said, I can't come over there, because there's a great chasm fixed between you and I, and I cannot cross that chasm. In the Old Testament, that's referred to as Abdigon, or Hades.
[23:39] Not hell, the place of eternal condemnation, not hell in the place of eternal judgment, but a gathered together of the dead souls, the departed spirits, of what we would say. And the reason I believe when Jesus tells this, that he's speaking of a literal event, is that he gives a literal name, Lazarus.
[23:54] Anytime he tells a parable, he never gives a name. It's always a man that says to his servants, and there are always generalities. But when Jesus tells the story of the rich man, Lazarus, he gives us a name. So he's telling us something, that literally happens.
[24:06] You say, well, how can the rich man, Lazarus, see one another? Well, that's easy to answer, because Christ had not yet went to the cross. He had not been laid in the tomb, and he had not ascended to the Father. And since he is the firstborn of the dead, of the resurrection, no one comes to the Father yet by him, that Lazarus definitely could not go to glory, apart from Jesus Christ.
[24:25] So Lazarus was in a place waiting, for Jesus to be dead, buried, and raised again. Much like Samuel, I'm just waiting on the Savior.
[24:38] I cannot explain it to you any further than that, because we have to just say, there's this place, where the departed spirits, by seeing one another, are not combined with one another, both the righteous, and the unrighteous. First Peter says it like this, that when Jesus was dead in the tomb, those three days, that he ascended to the lower parts of the earth, and he led captive, a host of captives.
[24:59] To me, that's when he went and said, all right, Samuel, you've been here long enough, and won't you and Lazarus get together, we're going to the Father. Because up to that time, they were captive spirits, with every other departed spirit.
[25:13] You say, oh, pastor, you're getting a little Pentecostal. I believe we can just say, it's a little biblical. Because it's all there. The reason the woman's scared, is because she had never seen anything like this.
[25:25] And the reason that Saul gets scared, is because Samuel's telling the truth. God gave a one time event, of a manifestation of a departed spirit. If you want evidence, for eternal life, and life after death, look here.
[25:40] Samuel is still alive, and talking, though they've already been told, we've been told twice, in the book, that he was dead, and buried in his own home, town, yet he is talking here.
[25:53] Why? Because, just because the body is worn out, and laid aside, like the casting off of a tent, to be absent from the body, because of Christ, is what?
[26:04] To be present with the Lord. death is not the end. Not even in the Old Testament. You don't just die, and it's over.
[26:17] So we see here, a demonstration, of the supernatural. It scares the lady, to her wits end. It declares, a word to Saul, that is absolutely true.
[26:32] God allows, one time, and that shouldn't surprise us, there was one time, when a donkey spoke. There was one time, that a bush was on fire, but it did not burn up.
[26:44] There was one time, that the Red Sea, was parted, and they walked across, on dry ground. There was one time, there was one time, there was one time, there was one time.
[26:54] We see them all, throughout scripture. Too many times, we read past passages, because it speaks, of the supernatural, and we try to, including myself, define it, in any other way, but that, but let's not, pull that away from it.
[27:09] God says, you want a word for me? Okay, I'll give you a word for me. Samuel, go tell him, what we've already told him. Because notice, Samuel doesn't bring, a new word, he just repeats, the word, which is the fourth, and final thing, the declaration, of the Lord.
[27:30] A prophet, has but one, occupation, and it is, to forth tell, the word of God. Sometimes, in the forth telling, they are also, foretelling.
[27:45] The office of prophet, is not so much, telling of the future, but declaring, the word of God. And sometime, by declaring, the word of God, it included, future events, still to come.
[28:01] So, we have to be careful, when we speak, of the Old Testament prophets, even as it goes, into the office, of the early church, in the New Testament, they speak of prophets. I don't think, that there is, I don't think, that that's a gift, anymore, in the church.
[28:17] I think that was for, that early church, period. We're not here, to get into that. But so, I don't believe, there are modern day prophets, because, there's really, no need for that.
[28:30] Because now, we have the fullness, of the revelation, of the word of God. We have, the office of, pastor, and teacher, and elders, and those things, that are given to us, in church, for the continuation, of the gospel.
[28:42] But anyway, prophets, are not foretellers, or fortune tellers, are not foretellers, not to tell the future, they are forth tellers. There's a big difference. To forth tell, is to tell forth, what God has already declared.
[28:58] So, this is Samuel, and we come to an agreement, that it is, then Samuel has, but one occupation, and that is to foretell, whatever God has to say. So, whatever Samuel says, is the declaration, of the Lord.
[29:10] This is how, Saul is going to get, his word from God. Samuel, asked, why have you disturbed me, by bringing me up? And Saul answered, I am greatly distressed, for the Philistines, are waging war against me, and God has departed from me, and no longer answers me, either through prophets, or by dreams, therefore I have called you, that you may make known to me, what I should do.
[29:34] Here we see his desperation, here we see his desire, and then Samuel says, why do you ask me? Since the Lord, has departed from you, and has become your adversary.
[29:47] Oh, I like how Tony Evans, says it sometimes, when God is your problem, you've got a problem. The greatest adversary, that Saul was facing, was not the Philistine army, he was afraid of, the greatest adversary, he was facing, was the Lord God, he had been disobeyed.
[30:08] Samuel says, why have you asked me, when the Lord has departed from you, and he is now your adversary? You are wrestling against God, partial obedience, is full disobedience, and disobedience, is to wrestle, with the Lord God.
[30:25] He had become, their adversary. And then, look at verse 17, verse 17, is a repetition, of what Samuel, had already declared, to Saul, many years earlier.
[30:40] The Lord, has done accordingly, as he spoke, through me. What is he saying? What I have declared, he would do, he is doing.
[30:53] God will fulfill his word. And he points back, to Saul's, partial obedience. He says, for the Lord, has torn the kingdom, out of your hand, and given it to your neighbor, to David.
[31:08] Oh, you remember, when Saul reached out, and grabbed a hold, of the edge, of Samuel's garment. Samuel's garment ripped, and Samuel turned, and looked, and said, and so too, has God torn, the kingdom out of your hand.
[31:22] Why? Because, he had a clear word, from God, to go, to kill Agag, to kill everyone, that was following him, to destroy utterly, to annihilate everyone, over there. Not because God's, a big mean God, but because Saul, was to be the instrument, of God's judgment, upon these people, for their sin.
[31:38] And Saul, decided to do things better. Samuel shows up, and says, and have you obeyed me? Saul says, everything the Lord, has commanded, I have done. Well what is this, lowing and bleeding, of the sheep, which I hear?
[31:50] Oh well, we've just kept, the best ones back, for our sacrifice. God didn't want, the best ones, he wanted full obedience. And what is this king, that I see? Oh well, we brought him in captive. He doesn't want, any captives, right?
[32:01] He wants obedience. He doesn't want, a sacrifice. He wants obedience. This is what, he's pointing back to. You remember that Saul. He has torn it, out of your hand.
[32:12] As you did not obey the Lord, and did not execute his fierce wrath, on Amalek, so the Lord has done this thing to you, this day. Moreover, the Lord will also give over Israel, along with you, into the hand of the Philistines.
[32:28] Therefore, tomorrow, you and your sons will be with me. Indeed, the Lord will give over the army of Israel, into the hand of the Philistines. And, it happens.
[32:39] It happens. The Philistines don't kill Saul. Saul is struck in the battle. Saul takes his own life. Why? Because the Lord's his adversary.
[32:55] Everything that Samuel declares will happen, does happen. It's true. This is the declaration of the Lord. Now, Saul really understands his condition. It says, he lays prostrate on the floor.
[33:08] He is so shaken in fear, he cannot get up. The woman comes and says, you need to strengthen yourself. You need to eat something. Won't you eat something? Oh, I don't want to eat anything. I can't eat anything. And it says, and the two men who went with him, and the woman persuaded him.
[33:21] And then it says, and Saul listened to them. Warren Wearsby, I believe it is, points out the irony, that the reason the kingdom is being taken from him, is because Saul would not listen to God, but now he's listening to the woman who is a medium, and listening to his servants who knew where the medium was.
[33:39] He was not willing to listen to God, but he is willing to listen to men. And she gets up, and she fixes him a king's dinner. Literally, it's a dinner that you would fix for a king.
[33:53] His last meal is on the way out, not on the way in. This is a coronation meal. But this will be the last meal he has.
[34:06] Because he's not fit to be king. Saul is about to receive the full reward for partial obedience. My friend, when we contrast the lives of David and Saul, we find two men with the same struggles we have.
[34:24] Namely, it is our sin nature. David is not perfect. He stumbles, he makes mistakes, and he ends up in places he should never be. Saul does the same thing.
[34:35] But what we find is when the Lord leads David, he obeys him completely. He is penitent. He truly mourns over his sins.
[34:48] He is broken over them. And God restores him and uses him. Saul thought he could get away with partial obedience in every part of his life.
[34:59] And half-hearted living and half-hearted obedience finally brought about a full reward. And that reward was death. It's not a matter of whether either one of them perfect.
[35:09] It's not a matter of whether either one of them good. What was the matter was where were their hearts? God had to do the supernatural. He brought Samuel back to declare to Saul exactly what was going on.
[35:23] Because not only for Saul's sake, but also for our sake, we did not want to think that the Philistines won the battle. Because ultimately, God is stronger than the enemy we face.
[35:41] But he will not overlook partial obedience, for it is full disobedience. 1 Samuel 28, verses 3-25.
[35:56] Before I close in a word of prayer, I'll ask once again, if anyone has a word that they would like to share, or a question that they just need to ask before we leave.
[36:09] Our hearts and minds clear. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. The phrase, tomorrow you will be received, is spoken by Samuel referring to, and his son.
[36:27] Okay. Well, that tells me that where Samuel was, was not a bad place. It also says that God, being a forgiving God, did not condemn Saul and his son for the war of God.
[36:51] Does that make any sense? I would not agree with that interpretation, and this is why.
[37:04] I'll go back to the rich man and Lazarus account. They're in the same locale, but there's a chasm fixed between the righteous and the unrighteous.
[37:18] In the Old Testament, when an individual dies, Agbedon, or Hades, the lower parts of the earth, is seen as the holding place of the departed spirits.
[37:33] For years, that used to bother me a little bit, because it seemed almost like a purgatory. Right? Like you could work your way up. Until I came to the understanding that there could be no entrance into the kingdom of heaven, apart from the entering in of Jesus Christ.
[37:50] So, every Old Testament saint had to die and go somewhere, while they were waiting on the resurrection. My understanding, and I'll show you why in just a moment, is they were in a common place.
[38:04] Maybe not together in that place. It would be just like, right now, my wife and granddaughters are in the same church building with me, but they're not in the same room with me. So, they're over there.
[38:16] There was some separation. We see that. When Jesus tells the story, rich man dies and Lazarus dies, they could see one another. They could speak to one another. But they couldn't reach one another.
[38:29] They were in a common place. I believe at the death of Christ, some interpret 1 Peter, where it says, Jesus ascended to the lower parts of the earth, as meaning that he left heaven and came to the lower parts, which are the earth.
[38:46] But I think you're missing that. He led forth the host of captives. He led forth the captives that were held captive. I think the lower parts of the earth, meaning that Jesus, on those three days, because the raging question is, what did he do during those three days?
[39:05] I think he went there and said, see, I told you I was going to win. And he took the righteous with him and led them forth unto glory. And then when we turn in the book of Revelations, it says, there will be a day when all the spirits are called forth, that the sea will give forth those who are in it, the land will give forth those who are in it, that the dead will be raised on a day of judgment.
[39:31] Now that judgment is not the judgment of the saints, because they're already with Christ. They've already come back with him on the white horses. They're already come that final battle. This is the Bema seat of Christ.
[39:43] This is the judgment seat of Christ. And it says, and then they will be held accountable for their deeds. Their names are not recorded in the Lamb's book of life.
[39:53] So their judgment will be passed upon their deeds, what they have done. And then those spirits who have been judged, along with Satan, are cast into the lake of fire, which is hell.
[40:08] So, I know it's a long answer to the question. The way I understand it scripturally, is that they're waiting in judgment. Maybe not experiencing the torments of hell, but definitely experiencing the isolation of separation.
[40:27] And there will be a day where they're called out of the lower parts of the earth, whatever that is, wherever that is, that's how the Bible authors described it. And they will face the judgment seat of Christ, and then they will receive their reward for what they have done in their flesh, which will be the lake of fire.
[40:47] But the righteous did not leave that place until Christ died and was raised. So when Samuel looks at him and says, you will be with me, I think literally they were all together.
[40:58] It was not a place of righteous reward. It was also not a place of eternal judgment, because it could not be. It was just a place of the departed spirits.
[41:11] That's how this described the Old Testament. Anybody else want to add to that? I'd love to take, I'd love to really dig in that a little deeper, because I've had the same question. I'm like, that seems like purgatory.
[41:21] This, by the way, is where the Catholic Church gets their purgatory stuff from, and it's definitely not purgatory, because you can't leave that place. You're called out of that place, either for judgment, or out of that place for resurrection.
[41:34] Now, the beauty of it is, we're on this side of the cross, and on this side of the resurrection, and the Bible tells us that the moment we're dead, Paul says to be absent from the body is to be present with Christ. Now, that makes theological sense, and it makes logical sense, because if Samuel had went to heaven, or paradise, or a place of reward, or if David, when he died, had went anywhere else, other than the place of the dead, then they would have beat Jesus there.
[42:05] And he couldn't have been the first fruits of the resurrection, because he had not taken on flesh yet, and died for the sins of man. And, if any other, this gets really deep, if any other saint in the Old Testament, made it to heaven before Jesus died, then they went without the shedding of the blood.
[42:25] They had to wait for the sacrificial lamb, to be offered. And we would have been able to say, that they went according to their works, because even their temple sacrifices, would have been works, that would have been considered accepted.
[42:40] And I think that's when the author of Hebrews, in the 11th chapter, said that they went forth, looking for a city, which they did not know. They were waiting, for the one whose builders, and foundations are found in heaven.
[42:52] And they were waiting on, ultimately, they were waiting on the lamb, to be slain, so that they would have, entrance into, the kingdom of heaven. Because apart from that, if they weren't all in one, neutral, natural place, or one common place, and they would have, they would have went before Jesus died, they would have went before Jesus did, and we could not say, that he's the first fruits, and we could not say, as the book of Hebrews calls him, the trailblazer, the one who goes before, and we could, could not say, that they went because he died, they went on their own works.
[43:22] And we know, that no man gets to heaven by works, no not one. It's the only, at least in my mind, it's the only interpretation, that makes sense.
[43:32] Even though, at times, it confuses me, I'll just be honest. I'll just be honest. Because it's a really deep, really deep question.
[43:44] But I'm so thankful, that Jesus told the story, in the New Testament, of the rich man Lazarus, because it's the only appearance, in the New Testament, we have, of both the righteous, and the unrighteous, being in the same place, after death.
[43:58] And again, Jesus is telling that story, before he died. We never have that, repeated for us. So, we say this, it helps with the, consistency of scripture, that no man gets to heaven, apart from Jesus Christ.
[44:14] But it doesn't bring doubt, into our lives, because after the death, and resurrection, we're under the new covenant, of the blood, and things have changed, our entrance, is immediate. Today you will be with me, in paradise, Jesus tells the thief.
[44:28] You're not going to go down there, you, singular, will be with me, in paradise, while he, is waiting the judgment. According to the book, of Revelations, none, are in the lake of fire, yet.
[44:42] Right? They haven't been called forth, to the day of judgment. They're just, waiting in judgment. Now, it's not, we don't want to say, they're having a big party there, because, they're isolated, and separated, from everything, that's, all the presence of God.
[44:57] And when you take, when you remove, the presence of God, it's literally, I mean, it's hell. Right? Yes?
[45:08] And that's, I believe, they're still in that same, common place, awaiting, the resurrection of the dead, for the judgment.
[45:23] That wasn't a good place, right? No. Right, he was in torment. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, while it's not, what we would call, hell, the lake of fire, it is still, isolation, separation, it's still, a place of torment, because, I mean, Lazarus is thirsting, he's desiring, but, the, the wonder of that story, is they could see each other, like, right over there, I mean, is, is relief, but I can't get there, because of the chasm, so that probably made it, even more, torment, so, I believe, if we stay consistent, with that interpretation, the unbelievers, who died today, are also still going to that, what would refer to, as the lower parts, in Jewish thought, it was just the shield, a place of waiting, for judgment, because the book of Revelations, is very clear, that there will be, a particular day, where all the dead, are raised, and they appear, before the bema seat, and they are judged, according to their deeds, only those, whose names are found, written in the Lamb's book of life, enter into heaven, but these are judged, according to their deeds, and there will be none found, because there are none righteous, no not one,
[46:31] I don't care how much good you did, your bad always outweighs your good, and at that moment, then they are cast, along with Satan, and his demons, into the lake of fire, which was prepared, for Satan, and his demons, and, and in the book of Revelations, is that wording, these unto eternal life, and these unto eternal judgment, so, the wording is exactly the same, so if we believe, in eternal life in heaven, we have to believe, in eternal life, in the lake of fire, we cannot believe, in what they call, annihilation, that the unbelieving, just perish, and they don't feel anything, because the very same word, used to describe, their eternity, eternal judgment, is the same word, used to describe, our reward, eternal life, yes ma'am, so it's, like, God can, bring everybody forward, to see what they did, what they did, right, to show, that none of these, were, the ticket, to be with him, right, so that's why, you have to, have to do that, there will be no doubt, and that's where his judgment, is righteous, it is fair, it is correct, and that's where we get, that every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess, because, there will be a day, where they stand before, and they give an account, and there will be no doubt, at that moment, you know, so I don't think, in my interpretation, of scripture, none can say,
[48:06] I don't belong here, because they will have stood, before the judgment seat, and they will know, which again, is consistent, with scripture, scripture, scripture is, is amazing, in its consistency, it's complex, in its interpretation, at times, but it's so amazing, in its consistency, more so than any other religion, in all the world, there is no shadow, there is no doubt, it is, it is easy, to follow the consistent, line, even as complex, as it is, because that was a raging, question I had, for years, how did the Old Testament, saints get to heaven, apart from Jesus Christ, I mean, before I really started, it was because they didn't, they were waiting, yeah, yes sir, why did, why did the rich man, ask Abraham, to have, Lazarus, fit his feet, or water, to the humble self, if he wasn't, in the lake of fire, well because he's, in a place of torment, separation, and dryness, and bareness,
[49:12] I believe, that's what I'm saying, I don't think it's, the lake of fire per se, that we have described for us, as a place of eternal punishment, but it is, a place of, discomfort, and a place of, of torment, and it's, it's to me astounding, that they could converse, back and forth, but yet they couldn't, traverse back and forth, right, they couldn't reach one another, but he could see, and again, I think that, at that present time, you see relief, just right there, almost like a mirage, but you can't, get it, and at least in his mind, had to be feasible, that he could have, in his mind, we're so close, why can't you, but Abraham answers, and Abraham's bosom, by the way, is always, before Christ died, Abraham's bosom, is, is a place of rest, and that's why the Bible, speaks of the death, of the believer, even in, the Old Testament, it says, you know, when it speaks of the unrighteous, it says they died, and it speaks of the righteous, it says that, you know, they, they slept, because Abraham's bosom, is seen as a place of rest, and waiting, waiting until the fullness, of the day of redemption, and so, he, at least in his mind, it seemed possible, that he could have, but the chasm's too deep, so do you think, that God provides, comfort and relief, for those that were righteous, in the field, yeah,
[50:39] I believe so, I believe theirs, is just a place of rest, in the New Testament, the word you get, for the death of believers, is the same word, we get for hotel, that's where we get our, the Greek word, is a word, that we translate into hotel, just mean a place of rest, and solitude, and comfort, the death is not a scary thing, for the believer, Old and New Testament, it's just a place of, stop, which I think, coincides with, even the message this morning, children, we exist for God, and there will be a day, where he gives us, the rest we need, unfortunately, we call that death, and that scares us, but he looks at it, and says, that's rest, but in this present hour, you exist for me, yeah, any other questions, I did Q&A, with all the, the homeschool cooperative, Robert's questions, always scared me, because he had good questions, any other questions, any other questions, good questions, brother, does that answer your question,
[51:48] I hope, did it confuse you more, or is it, did that answer the question, okay, I'll try to get into it, a little further, I'll type it out, and see if I can give you some text, and see if maybe, through your study, and my study, we can, we can do it together, would that be good, I'll try to do that, okay, all right, you cannot over discuss, revelation, and you cannot, devote too much time, no sir, no sir, it is such a, simple thing, but it's so, deep, yes sir, I've been, reading about, the story of Joseph, that he, is, his wife, and it brings, my, the phrase that, what, you met, for evil, God met, and it seems like, this whole, story also, there's a parallel, where, there is nothing good, and Saul, going to be, and he, but, there comes Samuel, and he speaks the truth, so, it kind of, seems like, it's a parallel, kind of, kind of, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good word, there's nothing, there's no good, reason for him to go there, but yet,
[53:15] God in his grace, and that's, that's why, in my own mind, honestly, I wrestled so long, with just saying, yes, that's Samuel, the reason I wrestled so long, with saying, yes, that's Samuel, is because he's going, to a medium, and it doesn't see, there's any good, but, I had to reconcile, my mind, but God is greater, than the evil, and so, if God wants to, supersede the evil, to show a great demonstration, of his power, he can, yeah, there's nothing good, about, trying a person, in a pit, right, and, selling, to, like, the, I've been good about that, God meant, forgiveness, right, which is hard to understand, yeah, it's amazing, anything else, your explanation, that told me, to look again, at Jesus' word, he said, he came to, kept free, that tells me, it was a lot of, legacies, and shields, and he, right, hmm,
[54:23] I think you're right, brother, I, that is something, and I'll, I'll end here, I had this, that was one of the things, the major, main things, one of my big rock things, I had to work out, okay, I had to answer, for my own self, in my own study, did the Old Testament saints, get to heaven, before, Christ, died, and if they did, again, then they, would have, been able to go, on their own works, and that just, did not line up, with the gospel to me, it didn't line up, with anything, that I saw in scripture, and so, that's, that's what led me, as you said, that's, that's what led me, to start, I need to understand this, and these are my interpretations, let me pray with us, and then I'll, let us go, Lord, thank you so much, for this night, thank you for your faithfulness, and your goodness to us,
[55:24] Lord, we realize, that the gospel, and the word, is so powerful, but Lord, we, we often come, with questions, Lord, we, never, plunge, the depths, of the word, as we read this morning, the moment, we begin to think, that we know, we have not yet, realized what we do not know, thank you for an opportunity, to study, thank you for an opportunity, to discuss, Lord, we pray, that by the power, and presence of your spirit, that it has been, God honoring, Christ glorifying, Lord, and saint edifying, may we be strengthened, in our daily walk, today and tomorrow, by what we know, of you, may we continue, to grow closer, and closer to you, each and every day, and we ask it all, in Jesus name, Amen.
[56:32] Amen.